Workplace Wellness - Emma Hossack, WeTalkWellbeing

In her own words Emma Hossack is "a recovering perfectionist" having burnt out not once but twice, after each of her children were born whilst juggling a high octane pharmaceutical sales career.

Today she and her partners at WeTalkWellbeing help organisations and most importantly their people to be their most authentic, happy and resilient selves.

Not in a fluffy way however. 

Emma is a strong believer in data and feels this is often the missing element in businesses managing the wellbeing of their people. 

One of the tools WeTalkWellbeing offer is the WRAW (Workplace Resilience and Wellbeing) Index, a framework that provides a data-fuelled starting point and strategy for organisations. 

Aspects covered in our discussion include:
- training should be 'for' not 'done to' co-workers
- boundaries are key for purpose and happiness
- fruit in the office and gym memberships are not a panacea
- the motivational shift from money to purpose, especially GenZers

As per other episodes in this series, Emma declares that one size does not fit all.  Not just within one organisation but across different industry sectors and business types too.

And two fundamentals to finish on:
- thinking is not the same as knowing - data must be used to design a company's wellbeing programme
- leaders need to ask themselves "how am I modelling wellbeing and resilience?" as it all starts with them.

Our thanks to Emma for another fascinating and thought-provoking insight into the world of Workplace Wellness, punctuated as always with comparisons to the world of sheep, shepherds and their dogs.

Enjoy - and thank ewe for listening 😊🎧

FREE resources:

Explore the WRAW (Workplace Resilience And Wellbeing) Index
Blogs and reports on resilience and wellbeing on Emma's WeTalkWellbeing website

Sheep, Shepherd or Dog - which one are ewe? Take our personality quiz and find out.

Connect with the speakers via LinkedIn:
Emma Hossack - Director, WeTalkWellbeing and Founder, Transforming Minds for Business
Caroline Palmer - Top Dog and co-founder, Raising the Baa
Chris Farnsworth - Head Shepherd and co-founder, Raising the Baa & author of 'Sheep Shepherd Dog - Building a Magnificent Team Around You'

What are your main team challenges and desires? Maybe we can help?
Book in a 15-minute Exploratory Call now and let's see.

Transcript

 Emma 00:03
Do organisations really understand what resilience and wellbeing means? And are they testing it? Because if you're not testing it, people often are telling you what you want to hear and you're not really getting under the hood of your organisation. 

 Caroline 00:17
Hello, and thank you for tuning into Sheep Dip, the podcast from Raising the Baa global leaders in team building with sheep. So, workplace wellness, what does it all mean? It's such a huge topic, which is why for this series of Sheep Dip, we have invited a really wide variety of guests who are experts in their particular field. They're from the corporate side as well as consultancies. They will be sharing their insights and giving you some truly practical tips on how you can improve your own workplace wellness. Feel free to join in the conversation on socials using the hashtag workplacewellness. But meanwhile, let's get on with the show with your hosts, Chris Farnsworth, who's our Head Shepherd, who co-founded the business with myself, Caroline Palmer. Enjoy the show. 

 Caroline 01:07
Hello, and today we are delighted to be joined by Emma Hossack who is going to introduce herself.  I think it might better for you to introduce yourself, Emma, so you can tell the world what it is that you do right now. 

 Emma 01:21
Thank you, Caroline. Thanks for having me on. My name is Emma and I am the co-founder of a resilience wellbeing training organisation called WeTalkWellbeing. I'm an exec coach, an NLP practitioner, a master resilience practitioner, but most importantly, a human being really passionate around resilience and wellbeing, helping anyone get to where they want to get to. So our mission is to help organisations and individuals just get to where they want to get to and be the happiest they can be. 

 Caroline 01:49
That's fantastic. That's where you are right now. So, a little bit about your background. You were saying you were in the corporate world, once upon a time yes?

 Emma 01:56
I was.  I've been in sales all my life, until I was 35, actually. And I always share this story and anyone that works with me will know that I'm an oversharer, so happy to overshare. So I've always been very curious about people and I feel that sales is that it's talking to people. I'm fascinated about people's stories, their backgrounds, what makes them do what they do and why do they get where they get. And I had my two children and I took a break with my second daughter and she was born on this earth to challenge me, I would say. So before that, when I was in the corporate world, I am a recovering perfectionist, worked extremely hard in the city and suffered burnout when I was 29. And I was actually hospitalised with what I thought was having a heart attack, but I was actually having a panic attack. 

 02:39
So that was my first step into resilience and wellbeing and realising that I wasn't looking after myself. And then I went back into the workplace did very well again, but had my second daughter, who I said was born to offer a different challenge to life. At that point, I wasn't sleeping or eating, and I again reached burnout for a second time where I was pretty sick and ended up in therapy and coaching. And those experiences completely changed my life. And so when I was 35, I had the brainwave of, wow, this is what I want to do. And I became a coach. I set up a young coaching organisation called Transforming Young Minds and it was all about focusing on teenagers. And as we hit COVID and my children got older, I realised, wow, I want to step into the adult world. I saw amazing parents coming through my door with their children and it was the parents that really needed to see someone like me. 

 03:29
So yeah, that's where it all began. And we taught wellbeing again involved having met an amazing lady called Dr. Glenda Rivoallan, who's my business partner. And as we evolved with working with adults, we realised there was something missing in the corporate space. And that was, are we looking at data? Do organisations really understand what resilience and wellbeing means? And are they testing it? Because if you're not testing it, people often are telling you what you want to hear and you're not really getting under the hood of your organisation. So really my coaching has evolved from my own personal experiences right through to working with young people, adults, and now seeing and working with some of the best brands in the world to help them really understand what is going on within their culture. 

 Caroline 04:14
We started, you like stories and I'll just share a little bit about our story because some people listening to this don't know our story. We actually started completely by accident, actually see a young people's charity that needed something to help with their lacking communication skills. You tell the story. You tell it better than I do. 

 Chris 04:34
Yeah, it was just a throwaway idea. And I think your point about being curious is so valuable. I don't think people realise the value of being curious because I only gate crashed this meeting because there was a free cup of coffee.  Popped in and David was setting up the charity. And I said, well, he's done everything. And I said, what are you looking for? And he said, oh, I just want a bit of a team building event. Do you know any? I said, well, no. If I was in your shoes, I'd be taking them down the farm, run around, lose a bit of energy, and then they'll be able to sit down and think about something. He said, oh, that's a great idea. What do you mean? And I went, oh gosh, suddenly you want your one brain cell to work. And I'm going, well, just get the sheep in, then we can do something with them. 

 05:22
And I thought getting the sheep in would be incredibly easy. I had no idea it was so difficult. I had no idea because I do it every day. It's just like go out with the dog, round the sheep up, put them in the pen. Takes me about four minutes. And to actually challenge young kids to work together, to actually get the sheep in the pen was a great team builder. 

 Emma 05:44
Yeah, absolutely. And I think what we're both talking about is things happening by accident, but really, the universe had the plan and the curiosity comes again when you're open to exploring. So people talk about me and my squiggly career, but I feel it all led into something else at the right time. And when I go into organisations and I tell my story, I'm often sitting in front of parents who are really curious about how they model wellbeing to their children and why their children might be behaving how they do. And I think as human beings, it's all very messy. And I think if you can find these little doors for people to step through, to become curious about themselves and get to where they want to get to, whether you are herding sheep or coming in and working with us is amazing. And that's really more about making the world a better place, really, isn't it? 

 Chris 06:34
Very much so. And actually, it reminds me of a true story. I was watching the news when I was a youngster and this guy got pushed in front of a train and lost the bottom half of his leg.  He was interviewed soon afterwards. He said, oh, no, I don't blame the kids who pushed me in front of the train or losing the bottom half of my leg. This has opened up opportunities that I wouldn't have had if I had two normal legs. Gosh, I really want to meet this person. Thought nothing more of it. But I ended up in hospital in the bed opposite him and we had a whole day together talking about his attitude to life. And I'll tell you what, from that moment onwards, I vowed I'd always be curious. 

 Emma 07:22
Yeah, absolutely. What an amazing story. What an amazing young person. And this is what we mean about resilience and wellbeing. It is your mindset and it's your choices. I think that's what you're sharing there is your choice to be curious, but for that young person is choice to accept what has happened and do something with it. When we coach organisations, quite often organisations will approach us and we'll say, we're not here to fix you. This is dual responsibility. Wellbeing at work, resilience, how you see the world is a dual responsibility. If you create the right culture, it really is up also to the employee to come with the right attitude to that. And it is something we all have to be responsible for. 

 Caroline 08:02
As we all know, this is a huge area wellbeing which embraces resilience and everything else. Is there a particular area, a part of it, which you'd say you're particularly passionate about? And why would that be? 

 Emma 08:15
Yeah, I'm really passionate about testing data because when I think about when I was in the corporate world, I was very successful. So I would often have someone say, right, we want to put you on this leadership programme, but before we do that, I want you to see a coach. And I would sit with this coach and think, oh my gosh, what does this mean? Am I saying the right thing? Is it going to get back? Where am I at? And I just really would have loved to have understood myself better, to then have a framework. And so I'm really passionate that coaching should never or training should never be done to people. Because what happens is you don't get always the engagement. But when you psychometric test how well and resilient an individual is, you can look at a team, a whole organisation, even better, we can test how leaders set their teams up for resilience. 

 09:10
You've got a really amazing picture of what is happening. And therefore everything Glenda and I do together is completely different. We don't have any programme that's exactly the same. So I'm really passionate that this has to be meaningful, there has to be data behind it. And most importantly, we have to work with leaders because you can have the best programmes in the world, but unless leaders have a focus on this, things don't change in the long term. So data is really important to me, and that is the difference that we share and do with organisations that other people don't. 

 Caroline 09:47
So when you say data, is this about your raw index? Is that the sort of data you're talking about? Or are you talking about quantitative data? 

 09:54
No. So we use raw. Raw stands for workplace resilience and wellbeing.  We are practitioners in that, so we love to use that. But we're also starting to bring in other testing tools such as happiness, how people see stress. So we'll decide how we use the data, depending on what the need is for the organisation. But the bulk of our work has always been the raw index. And that's actually great because what people will know about resilience is everyone's been talking about it since the pandemic, which by the way, was three years ago. But everyone, if you go into any coaching session or any training program, when we think about resilience, everyone will have their own take on it. But how we see resilience isn't just being strong, bouncing back. It's about how much you're moving, what you're eating, how you're sleeping, what are your boundaries like. 

 10:42
It's about what your purpose is. Do you know what it is, what's your why, how you see the world, your self belief and your relationships. So we love to provide that framework and the data feeds into those pillars. And so therefore, we can come and say, wow, Joe, in front of me. Your relationships are amazing, but what is really pushing your resilience down is your energy. Talk to me about your boundaries and suddenly people are like, oh my gosh, this isn't what I thought it would be. So for us, it's the raw index is fantastic, but depending on what the needs are of the organisation, we will bring other testing facilities in.

Caroline 11:17

Are sheep resilient?

Chris
Oh, definitely. They push the boundaries as well. 

 Caroline 11:22
In the shepherding world, you use data, don't you? 

 Chris 11:24
Very much. 

 Caroline 11:25
Sometimes very scientific data, and sometimes it's more just observational fact data. I guess there's a little bit about what you're doing as well. 

 Chris 11:33
I mean, definitely in the sheep world, I guess I've been around long enough that I don't need to weigh every single animal. I can tell what weight they are just by looking at them, but you do confirm it by putting them over a set of weight scales. 

 Caroline 11:48
I was thinking about lambing as well. Again, for you, it's an observational thing, isn't it? 

 Chris 11:54
For me, I love simple, and simple means that I need the data there and then at lambing time to know what I'm doing and how I'm doing it. Having a process that I know where all the systems are, so I know I've done that. That means I don't actually have to remember it, I just have to look, and then I know I've done that process and then it goes on. It is observational, just thinking really about the dog, how we empower the dog to do the right thing, which is really your point of actually setting boundaries, good communication, all of that. The dog always wants to go to work. There's not a day that it doesn't want to go to work. And I'd love to think the workforce would be the same, wouldn't it? 

 Emma 12:42
Yeah, absolutely. And I think you talk about quite a few things there. When you talk about data being important for you, it gives you an understanding of process. And I kept thinking about the word framework. Now we can all think about times when we sat in training programmes that companies have brilliantly sponsored, but you kind of leave there and you forget it in a month because it was done to everyone. What data does, just like it does for you, for anyone coming through our programmes, is it gives them something to work on and something that's going to last because we can retest. So quite often people come through programmes, we ask, we test them, we develop the programme based on their results, and then guess what? We retest them. We can say, wow, you were here, but now you're here. And actually, every week, people have things they're going to work on because they've got the data. 

 13:29
And it's amazing. You know what it's like when you make progress, it feels great. Then that gives you the motivation to keep going. So I think we're talking about very similar things. And you're right about people wanting to come to work. Latest Gallup data shows that a leader has more of an impact on an employee than their therapist, partner and their doctor. It's so important in order for organisations to thrive that the workforce is happy. But that isn't just about bringing fruit in on a Friday and giving them a gym membership. This is about what does each person need? And we can't always fulfil all of that. But if you have dual responsibility where you give your employees the tools and the support, then it really is up to the employee to come with that. But I have a real problem with quick fixes. Like there's your free, we'll take you out once a month or we'll give you a big Christmas party. 

 14:20
Doesn't always make people happy. 

 Chris 14:23
I mean, it's the same with the dog as well. It would much rather go out and do something successful to most people. They look at the dog and they go, how well trained it is. And I said it often has bad days. And the point is that you always leave on a high and you always end on a job that they can do. And so they naturally want to bring the sheep to you and even just walk them through the gateway and then let them go. And then it feels like it's done a good job. That's more important than ever telling it off and just keep hammering the bad point again.  With training a dog, it's always the shepherd's fault, it's never the dog's fault. And that's the hard part. And I guess it's the same with leaders. 

 Emma 15:11
Absolutely. Yeah. Their data shows actually people think that we're motivated by reward like money. But when we look at more recent data, people are much more motivated by purpose. And that's exactly what you're talking about with the dog. Yeah. 

 Caroline 15:25
Do you think that is a shift in recent times? Because you hear and I read a lot about Gen Z and the younger generations wanting that purpose. And it's almost like they go to an interview or graduate programmes intake thing and they're almost interviewing the employers to find out. And they will not go to a job which hasn't got the right purpose to meet their values, et cetera. I mean, I've always believed that should be something anyway to make a happy engaged relationship. But do you actually think there is a real shift? Do you think it is a generational shift? 

 15:55
One hundred percent and I'm right in between the Gen generations and I think that when we see it with the millennials and now the Gen Z that want that purpose, it's coming through. And I think COVID had a big impact on that time away to say, oh my gosh, is this what my life is? Am I happy with it? And how your employer treated you through that time was really important, but I think absolutely, the younger generations for sure are purpose driven and I think it also because the economy is how it is and housing is very difficult to buy. My generation and the older generation could get on the housing market. So you were there to earn money to pay for the house, but people can't do that now. Not everyone's doing that, so that's out of the window. So now it's about if I'm going to show up to work, I want to be doing something that I really love and travel and time out is really important, whereas older generations will be working till they burn out, like me, I did. 

 16:54
Younger generations won't accept that, their boundaries will better. Saying that the young people that I coach, the confidence and self belief is definitely lower and I think there's huge layers around that, but hybrid working is amazing, but it's meaning that communication isn't being learned. There's sometimes the confidence around what they're doing at work because they're not learning on the job like they used to. So there's different you might find boundaries are better, but self belief is often lower and relationships are lower. 

 Chris 17:23
It's interesting, your point there is where we are driven to have a house and to pay off the mortgage and all of those things. And the interesting I'm just thinking about the sheep. The sheep, if they're not fenced in, as in contained to one field, they get hefted and so they stay to a particular location which might move throughout the summer or the winter. They'll move around the fields and go, oh, this is where we want to be.  You know I was just thinking, actually, if you're not bounded by a house or accommodation, you suddenly go, well, your world's, your oyster. You're going, Actually, I'm going to go off to a far flung island somewhere, or are you going to stay in the UK and go, okay, I'm going to actually feel comfortable in this area, which, from the sheep's point of view, they want to stay together in that family group. 

 18:19
And actually what I guess employers are trying to do is to build that family group, aren't they? 

 Emma 18:25
Yeah, absolutely. And it's harder to do when we're not always in the office. Saying that, the organisations I work with, those days are definitely coming back. We have some organisations that are wishing people to spend two to three days a week, but there's a real juxtaposition there because some of the best organisations I work with, the cultures where they do support travel, they do support young people to move around the world and work. And now there's such benefits to hybrid working because you could be anywhere as long as you've got your laptop. So I think it's about getting the right balance and I'm not sure everyone knows what that looks like yet. I think we're getting there compared to last year, but I think it's really difficult for organisations to know what to do for the best to get people back in, but also offer them that support. 

 19:07
And that's where relationships are being very very challenged. And again, organisations now, it isn't a big push, a social event isn't going to the pub anymore. We are in a different era of wellness. It's about what can organisations offer their teams that's different from going to the pub or having a big party, which is where organisations like yours come in, where you can offer people outdoor space to team build and connect. And I think we're really seeking that. Young people want to be outdoors much more. They want to be away from teams or zoom. It's really essential. 

 Chris 19:43
I feel it's about the communication. It's that communication between the shepherd and the dog. I'm slightly dyslexic, which means I get my left and right muddled up and you can see the dog. I give the wrong command, the dog looks at me and goes, are you sure you mean that? And I go, oh no, the other way. And if I can get that communication with a dog, why aren't we doing it with humans? 

 Caroline 20:06
If you're enjoying listening to this show, we'd really appreciate your following and rating Sheep Dip wherever you tune into podcasts. And if you've got a burning question arising from this show, or there's a topic that you'd like us to cover, simply email me Caroline@raisingthebaa.com or send a message through any of our social channels.

 Caroline 20:25
I think it is very much about that, yes. I was going to come on to the point about hybrid, was two
questions in my head, really. 

 20:33
One is you've mentioned it already, the hybrid, and perhaps it's great, it's much more flexible, so it gives people those sort of fluid boundaries, if you like. It's balance, isn't it, between having boundaries but also being fluid and therefore giving people purpose. But I think it is this in real life communication. And it could be that I'm old school, but I just feel at the end of the day, we're social beings, aren't we? We're not doings we're beings, we're human beings. And I think we need that. Everybody at any age will still need that social connection, whatever it is. So I'm interested to hear a bit more from you about whether, in fact you think getting teams together is a really good thing. Even if they're already in two, three days, a week or whatever at the office, do you still think it's good to take that bunch of people and put them somewhere else, for example? 

 Emma 21:20
Yeah, one hundred percent. And actually it really is, because I think as well, I can't remember the stat now, this might be an old one, but I think there was something like 50% at one point of people in more online meetings.  Unfortunately, because we have this amazing now world of technology with zoom and teams and slack, we are in meetings often that we don't need to be in. And if you look at the brain MRI data, you see the stress our brain gets under when we're in back to back, I think absolutely essential. And nearly every meeting over the last year that I've done, workshop I've delivered, coaching I've talked through, there has always been a need to connect with the team and actually people do not want, like they used to be in the pub or playing golf. People are looking for something different and I think everything around connection in nature, connection outside doing something completely different, I think it's absolutely essential. 

 22:15
And when we look at resilience and we test it, relationships are one of the five pillars and actually outdoor connection again comes into that is something we talk about all the time. So I think more than ever, now we have technology, that we need to be seeing each other. Human beings are meant to be collective, that's what were born to do, to be in these tribes and come together. And I think the more we can do that, I think the better the wellbeing will be in an organisation. 

 Caroline 22:41
It can be sort of slightly stepping back, it can be quite overwhelming, I think, for employers. And you were rightly saying earlier that the whole pandemic has thrown up into the air, all the sort of rules, it's thrown all the rulebooks up there and they haven't all quite landed yet, have they? And I think people are still sort of suddenly go whoa. And I do feel immensely for the senior levels in these organisations, I feel that they must be feeling very overwhelmed themselves because crikey, how on earth am I supposed to deal with all this? As well as all my previous work? Have you got any maybe got one or two tips that you could give to an organisational leader who's thinking, whoa, where do I start with this? That would just start them on the right road. 

 Emma 23:18
I think it's really complex and I think it changes depending on the sector because some sectors are much more homeworkers like technology, but then others aren't. I just want to offer empathy to these organisations because I think it's very complex. I think from the organisations that we work with, where we see change is where we'd start with the leaders, like the leaders really looking at themselves as to how am I modelling resilience and wellbeing to my teams. The challenge comes that leaders in data show that they're more resilient than any other group. So it can be really hard if you're really resilient and your stress bucket is massive to get on the page of someone that isn't. So there's that. So it's about how can we look in the mirror and really be sure about what impact we're having? What does that culture look like? 

 24:10
So start with leaders is one, we can definitely make differences when you start with employees, but when you start with leaders, it's game changing. So everyone's we're looking at the culture. Secondly, it's not doing to people. So we're going to bring in someone to talk about resilience and wellbeing to you, or we're going to have a mental health first, data. And that's what we're going to do that. But this is about how can we understand the differences of the organisation. And that's why I will always say data is key, because what you think is going on often isn't what's happening. And you say about the last three years, Caroline, I think were always looking at wellbeing, for the last decade, I think it's got really complex and I think now we're in a financial crisis. It's now financial wellbeing. It's very difficult to be resilient when you can't pay the mortgage. 

 24:59
So I think we need to change what we're talking about.  Three years ago in the pandemic is very different to now. So data is key and keeping on top of that and making sure that when you're running programmes, they are unique to what's happening in your organisation will make a huge difference. I think the gym memberships and fruit is really key as well. But this is about the whole person, what's happening within the mindset and the body and your nutrition, because that all has to come together. 

 Caroline 25:28
And it’s a big ask, isn't it? I guess the point is they're going to have to recruit people who are perhaps more specialists in those areas. Perhaps we'll be seeing company nutritionists and things like that in the future, which is hurrah. 

 Emma 25:39
I think tick box exercises aren't great, although sometimes we need to do them. But I think start with data, you can't really argue with data. It's there and the evidence is there and people feel like they're being listened to and heard as well, which is great. And I always start all my workshops saying, I'm not going to come in and tell you to have 10 hours sleep a night and not use your phone, because that isn't real. But what I will do is come in and let's look at where you're at right now and what are the things that will make you feel better. Let's come up with that together. Because actually, I quite like watching Netflix till midnight twice a week. So this isn't about telling people what to do. This is about them understanding themselves. 

 Chris 26:14
I think your point about bringing in specialists is key because farming's done that forever. I mean, like myself, I bring in the vet and hopefully they'll have a few answers or I use agronomists or people like that to help me grow better crops. All of those people. It is a team effort. We very much bring in the specialists saying that we don't have anything like this. Resilience? What? 

 26:39
You just get on with it lad! Just get the waterproofs on. It's raining, so what.  The interesting part about food with sheep is you can have two flocks and you put them out in the field, they eat the grass and they stay isolated. But as soon as you put a trough and food in there and they have to actually get that limited resource, that's when the two flocks will come together and really merge. So there is something about sharing food in our DNA that actually makes it really important. 

 Emma 27:10
So we're going back to connection again. 

 Caroline 27:12
It's quite funny when we have our team events and at some point during the day somebody is bound to say what can we put in there?  I was thinking of bringing a bucket in. What can we do? What would the sheep like to eat? And we just go grass. All right, okay. So we're all surrounded by grass. The biggest mistake people make is that they think sheep are stupid. We hear somebody say that, we don't get cross with them. Let's just see how stupid they think they are in about an hour's time when they've actually worked things out. 

 Emma 27:44
I think animals can teach us human beings a hell of a lot. 

 Chris 27:48
Isn't that true with everything, though? If you think somebody is stupid, they then throw something back which shows your Achilles heel. I'm always very wary when people come out and they say, oh, the sheep are stupid. You know, you've got a lot of work to do from that one sentence. 

 Emma 28:08
And it's what the word you've used then? Being a coach could be irritating to others because I pick up on words and I think what you're saying though, relates so much to what Glenda and I do. We talk wellbeing, which is we can't think something's a certain way because we don't know. We need to find the evidence. And going back to the point about leadership and culture, the amount of leaders who are amazing by the way, they say, well, I think the organisation is there and then we test and it's not there and that's not the leader's fault. We are all coming with who we are and how we see the world. And leaders sit at the top and it's really challenging for them to really hear the truth and they're resilient because they're where they're at and often a bit older. They've often paid their mortgages off and financial issues aren't a problem. 

 28:55
So actually the think is where we say, should we see? Let's just see. And that's exactly what you were saying about people that make those assumptions about sheep. 

 Caroline 29:06
Never assume, it only makes an ass out of you and me. I'm sure you've heard that one. So is there something that you would like to share with our listeners? And you think actually that'd be great for people to that would help them maybe in that first step. 

 Emma 29:21
WeTalkWellbeing are there to partner with organisations that want to evolve. And it's interesting because people say, oh, can you come and do a quick workshop on? And then usually we're a year and a half down the line with that organisation. We're working on different things. So if I was talking to you as a leader or you're an HR lead or a training development listening to this, I would love you to have a look at our website wetalkwellbeing.com. But look at the raw index. And the wellbeing project work that we do, and just really ask yourself if I didn't know what was happening with my organisation, if I really didn't know how resilient the teams were, if my attrition is a problem and I have sick days or people are rocking up to work and I'm not sure they're okay. What would happen if I did nothing about it? 

 30:08
We offer raw index data, but we also offer consulting where we can come in and help you shape your strategy, which is fantastic. And we offer workshops, resilience courses, but we are actually one of the only training organisations that offer a diploma in resilience wellbeing and behavioral change. Wellbeing is unregulated. It's fantastic, by the way, we're all talking about it because I wouldn't have burned out all those years ago if it were back then. But if we're going to do it, let's do it properly and just make sure that it's meaningful. But if I was to push, the one thing you're going to do is follow the data. 

 Caroline 30:43
Excellent. Thank you. Brilliant, Emma. Well done. So we have a quick fire round, like to finish it off with a flurry. So I lost one. So what's your favourite animal? 

Emma

Dog. 

Caroline

Why is that? 

 Emma 30:56
I've got one and I just love him and I love dogs. 

 Chris 30:58
If you were given a large piece of land, what would you do with it? 

 Emma 31:02
I would grow my own crops, my own fruit and veg. 

 Chris 31:05
Fruit and veg. All right. 

 Caroline 31:08
And what is your favorite fruit? 

 Emma 31:10
Oh, mango. So it might be difficult to grow in this country, but I do love an apple, too, so that might be much more likely. We're a mango family here. We love every day we eat mango. 

 Caroline 31:22
Yeah, they are pretty lush, aren't they? Good. Excellent. Right, well, on that fruity note, thank you so much, Emma, for your time. It's been really nice to have that conversation, and I'm all about resilience now. That word's going to be echoing in my head all day, I think. 

 Emma 31:37
Thank you for having me on and I love what you do, so congratulations. It's a fantastic reason for people to get out and connect and work with animals, which is always so humbling and grounding. So thank you. 

 Chris 31:48
Okay, speak to you. 

 Caroline 31:49
Have a great day. Bye bye. 

 31:54
Thank you for listening today. What was your biggest takeaway or insight? Let us know on any of our social channels. We'd really love to know. Till next time, have a baa-rilliant week.