Sheep Dip with Raising the Baa
Discover how to keep your team engaged, happy, connected and productive - with and without the help of sheep.
Building the best team in your field.
Sheep Dip with Raising the Baa
Pick Your Own - with Leila of Bake2Explore
What struck ewe most from this episode - and why?
Welcome back to SheepDip, the podcast from Raising the Baa.
Today our guest is Leila Moeeni who has a truly fascinating back story from immigrant to human rights lawyer to baker.
We learn about her country of origin, the challenges she has faced (and continues to do so) and why she is so passionate about breaking bread with people.
Whilst hundreds of companies have brought their teams to a farm to herd sheep, we know that the exercises are not for everyone.
So we've raised our own 'baa' and created Pick Your Own. A bespoke collection of sustainable and meaningful activities to bring teams together in the countryside - just perfect for everyone's wellbeing.
Thank ewe for tuning in :-)
Pick Your Own brochure - download here
Click here to book in an Exploratory Call with Caroline
Connect with the speakers via LinkedIn:
Leila Moeeni - Helping Organisations Move EDI&B From Policy to Practice
Caroline Palmer - Top Dog and co-founder, Raising the Baa
What are your main team challenges and desires? Maybe we can help?
Book in a 15-minute Exploratory Call now and let's see.
Hi, welcome to Sheep Dip, the podcast that invites you to swap your boardroom for a barn. I'm Caroline from Raising the Baa and this season we're chatting with the collaborators from our new offering which is called Pick Your Own. This is a carefully curated collection of sustainable and meaningful team building activities which we run alongside herding sheep. So let's get on with the show. Hi Leila, really lovely to see you today. How are you doing?
Leila:Hi Caroline, I'm very well, thank you and thank you so much for having me. Looking forward to our conversation.
Caroline:Well me too, me too. I always love speaking with those in the same but different space I suppose as us. We've all got a common interest, haven't we? But you do it from a completely different angle to us. So tell us first of all about a little bit about Leila, a little bit about your background, where you're from and how you came to be where you are today.
Leila:My name is Leila. I'm a human rights lawyer and I'm a proud migrant with a neurodivergent brain. I'm originally Iranian and live in London for the past 15 years and I'm breaking bread with the teams.
Caroline:So yeah, I was really intrigued when I saw your business. We, for those of you listening, Leila and I met virtually through a course which was run by a lovely Scottish lady. And it was all about helping us to help corporate teams in the best way we possibly could. And there were all manner of businesses on that course. And what I have done is pull together those who run activities that share the same values as Raising the Baa because we're really interested to find out what else we can offer our our clients. Back to you Leila so what's the story behind your current business you started to say you bake bread with people but it's a little bit more than that isn't? Tell us the story behind it
Leila:Yeah absolutely it has got a few different backstories, which they are interconnected to each other as well. As I briefly mentioned, I'm a neurodivergent person and I migrated twice in my adulthood. And as you can imagine, it happened to me so many times as since I was a kid to be in places that I didn't feel like I belong. So at some point in my career and for my human rights work, I worked with different local communities in hostile environments and in very difficult situations that I had to find the common language to just open up the space for having the difficult conversations. And at some point in my life, a few years back, almost three years ago, I started to think that maybe I should create those inclusive, safe spaces where people feel belong. Because I was in that space and I know that what are the few elements that helps me to create that space for me or just make that space for me. And I always found that food and food cultures and food stories give me the language and the voice to start to say something, to share my stories and then take it from there. So that's one part of it. And also it is about baking itself and working with dough is a very grounding activity. But for me, it's not just about making bread. It is about the bread, but it's not all about bread making. It's about that simple getting together with people and creating that space for people to come together, bring them together as a team Around something that is very simple because bread is something that our ancestors used to do it on daily basis with minimum tools. And it's a very simple thing. The simplicity of it is very important for me. I never baked before the business at all. I just had to learn myself. But then I realized that there is so much beauty in that simplicity. It allows you to embrace and appreciate the imperfect. look of the bread. The process is not super complicated because also I'm doing flatbread in my workshop. So flatbread is a very simple and also basic, but also very sensory. And everybody can get involved even if they haven't tried it before. And I had so many experiences. I had people in my workshops that they were they've been into classical bread making trainings and I had so many people like myself that they never touched the dough before but there is something for everyone in it to enjoy because it's very sensory and also it opens up food has got this powerful effect that encourage people to share and open up about simple things and then you can develop more deep conversations and share more. And it really connects people together because you started to know things about people that you've worked with them for so long that there isn't any other situation that you would have been known about it. And also, personally, I'm a strong, genuine believer in learning from each other's lived experience. I made most of my important decisions in life based on inspiration getting from other people's lived experience. And there is so much power in it and also in informal spaces. And this is how I started. And these are all these bits and pieces that made it so close to my heart. And it's something that it really means a lot to me. And it comes from all bits and pieces of who I am.
Caroline:No, that's brilliant. And I mean, you're so right. It's one of the most, you know, the breaking of bread goes right back to your spiritual or not. I mean, the point is breaking bread is a really communal activity, isn't it? It is just the most fundamental. Chris who runs the business with me who is the shepherd we often make the analogy between sort of you know how sheep feed together you know they feed from a trough and it actually can really pull them together as well I mean I know people sort of think that sheep follow each other but there's nothing like orphan lambs who we've had to help sort of feed you know and after a while when they've moved on from the bottle and they move on to the dry food, which we put in a trough. And it's just amazing. I go in and I'm sort of absolutely, you know, mauled by them around my feet. And then I put it into this trough and suddenly they're all there together, heads down, their little tails are wagging. And they're just so happy because they're all together and they're all eating and they're all and it just sort of, you know, there's no arguments. It just works. get in and fit in wherever they can and it's just it's just an absolute joy and I just think well that's lambs doing it I appreciate that but um you know I think when people cook together there's just something about it isn't there whether you're on holiday with friends or whether you're just thrown together with some uh sort of relative strangers and cooking together just is a It's just something, as you say, you can all get involved with and you can all talk to each other whilst you're doing it. And of course, the great benefit is this, you get to enjoy something at the end of it as well.
Leila:Yeah. And also I'm coming from a culture that we use that. And also it's, I think, similar to the region that I'm coming from. I told you I'm Iranian and the whole in that part of the world in the Middle East. And I'm sure it's the same for in so many other communities that we use cooking together and eating together is part of the communal celebrating things together as well as a part of grieving together. Yes. So it has got so much power. And also, I think I remember that at the very beginning of Bake 2Explore, I wanted to have some family recipes for the dips because I make some dips and take it to the session for people to try their, to dip in their flatbread with those homemade dips. And I've got homemade recipe, my friend's grandma's recipes from Mexico for a guacamole, which has got some other elements that the guacamoles that I tried before. And she said that I really, I know that it may not go exactly traditionally with the type of bread that you are baking, but I really want you to have this because this is the way my grandma bring the whole family together with these kind of small dishes. that nobody could say no to it. So I really like that element that everybody, even from different cultures, can bring a story to the table that tells a lot about them, about their cultural heritage, about the things that help other team members to understand them better to also create a space to just have a conversation because you cannot always talk about the weather or just work related stuff. And also you cannot just go one day to the office and say, okay, from now on, I started to share things more about myself. No, you just need that informal spaces to get people, to start people, to get to know each other a bit. And also I really appreciate clients and people and corporate environments that have a strategy around building up that connection because we all know that these meaningful connection doesn't happen overnight. And one single event is not gonna fix everything. But all bits and pieces, part of a broader strategy, they can be really effective in a fun way.
Caroline:Absolutely. And I think that's the whole point, isn't it? You know, what we've always called what we do is we use the expression playful learning because you're learning, but in a playful way and it's a subconscious way. You're not really conscious of the learning, which makes it easier and more fun and actually sort of settles in deeper, doesn't it? I think. Without going into loads of detail, what actually takes place in your workshop? In a nutshell, how would you describe it?
Leila:Sure. I carefully and consciously pick up my ingredients, all from small, preferably family-run local businesses. and also every single ingredient comes with a story. I prepare everything, set the workshop setting beforehand, and we do everything from scratch together. There is a recipe card with step-by-step and easy to follow because for me, following a recipe is a nightmare. So I just really make sure everything is simple and easy to follow. And then we start to go a first round of quick introduction and then we just quickly start the process because we need, we'll have a window of 40 minutes for the dough to rest. And I use that as time for storytelling and a little bit talk a little bit about the story and the cultural heritage behind the bread that we are making, different spices. And also part of the joy is just when the dough is ready, we do flatten the dough. And when it comes to just do the toppings of the flatbread, I usually take a few different mixed spices. One is the traditional, one that goes with the bread, which is za'atar. And then I take other non-conventional combinations, some from Greece that I lived in and I explored their food culture, some parts from the Iranian spices and some other spices that they tried while I was traveling. And I tried and I know that so many people love them with their bread. So it's just a very hands-on engaging activity for two hours almost. .
Caroline:And in terms of numbers of people, what's a good number for you? What's the range for a group of people for you?
Leila:12 to 15 are perfect.
Caroline:Yeah, 10 to 16 is like a sweet spot for us.
Leila:Yeah I agree.
Caroline:We know over the years what works. So what would you say was the three biggest takeaways from people when they've experienced one of your baking workshops?
Leila:I think one of the most things that they hear from the feedbacks is just they have so much fun and had a chance to talk and engage with the colleagues that they work in the same company, but they never had a chance to talk to each other. Even though they exchange emails. So having that conversation and having some two hours engaging fun activity together is something that people enjoy a lot and I hear a lot, and this is something that stays with them. Another interesting aspect that I'm hearing is just in some organizations, when they have different stakeholders working together, for example, very young people, different generations working together, they found it really impactful in terms of their relationship building because they usually don't have the chance to stay and do some informal activities together under the same roof. And also something else that I realized that So people learn a lot about different bits and pieces of each other's culture. This is something that everybody's fascinated and I see the excitement in the session that people just really don't know. Oh, you did travel in these places. Even some people forget about some of the experiences they had. So it's an interesting trigger for people to find some previous experiences that can be relevant to others and it's interesting for people to share.
Caroline:It's a digital detox isn't it? I mean, you know, you're not using your phones, you're not using any devices. It's really low or no tech, isn't it? And I just think that that's so needed in these days of either remote working where we're doing, I mean, just like we are today. I mean, this is great that we're making this possible by being able to do it on Zoom. To totally rely on that is, yeah, I think it can be quite draining for people.
Leila:I think for both of our work, it just puts people in a soft, gentle, informal way out of their comfort zone as well. For example, for me, I'm a very urban person. I really like to do one of your activities because it really challenges me to go outside my comfort zone because I've never been in a farm in that setting. And also in my case, there are so many people that said that, oh, we haven't, we never, we are not good at kitchen. We don't know even how to cook, but they still, it's still in a nice encouragement and invitation to put yourself outside your comfort zone and learn something within your team.
Leila:I found that very interesting and it's that element exists in our both works some people even asked me I had a few times I had a group of new team members that they their managers and their line managers wanted to just create an informal space for them to get to know each other because they all work on this hybrid working system. So if they are new, they may not even see each other after a year even. These are the scenarios and assumptions, and scenarios we have in our head, which they are not always true, correct. And these informal situations and opportunities to just, I think these are very gentle and safe environments to just go outside your comfort zone without pushing it too hard and put so much pressure on yourself.
Caroline:One question that might come up in listeners' minds is what if I'm celiac or gluten, you know, can't eat gluten? I mean, I guess they're not necessarily having to eat it. They can still handle it. Or do you do anything with gluten-free flours or anything?
Leila:I cannot provide a solution for people who are allergic to because that space needs a completely different licensing and it needs a professional kitchen. But if people have gluten intolerance, I can create a setup with a gluten-free bread, which is also an amazing bread originally from Sudan, which is super tasty.
Caroline:Okay, so I'm sort of wrapping this up now. So as you and everybody listening knows, what we're all about is specialising in, you know, developing happy and healthy, thriving teams in a sustainable manner as possible. So I'm just interested to know, because obviously with your background in the legal space as well, you know, how do you feel being part of a team contributes overall to kind of the wellbeing at work?
Leila:I'm just, I think I'm answering this, going back to the fact that learning from each other's lived experiences and creating the space that people feel valued to share their lived experiences, that's something that I think brings so much richness to the teams. And I think that's the core part of the diversity, inclusion, and belonging that we are all talking about. Because I think without acknowledging people's background, where they come from, what makes them who they are, we cannot have that healthy, thriving and engaging environment.
Caroline:It is about backstories, isn't it? One aspect, certainly.
Leila:And also acknowledge that there are things that we don't know and it's fine. Yeah. But we can learn.
Caroline:Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. Because at the end of the day, it is the, I wrote a post about this only yesterday, it is the mixture, isn't it? It's the whole combination of personalities and backgrounds and skill sets and that's what makes a really healthy, thriving team, isn't it? But being able to share all that knowledge amongst each other, I think, and experiences is fundamental to it and just helps ease the day, doesn't it?
Leila:Yes. Because you cannot just, without these being in those formal spaces and having these chances to talk about, to do something and then share by doing it, learn by doing it. some fun informal activities, you can now have that conversation or just open up that space for more difficult conversations.
Caroline:And it means you have some, you've then got something in, you've all got your, you know, your diverse backgrounds and skill sets or whatever, but actually you've now got this one thing in common, other than just working together, you've got this other experience in common. And certainly from our point of view, people, I mean, I'm amazed. We're always amazed to have people say, oh gosh, yes, we still talk about it. And it'd be like five years ago or something I guess it's just something they wouldn't necessarily do certainly cheap it's not something you're going to do necessarily again in your life you know if you've you know unless you're in the countryside and happen to know a farmer but yeah it's a one-off isn't it I guess for so many people less so with baking I guess but nevertheless it's the point of doing it in a particular way and bringing all your cultural background your own personal cultural background to it and I just think that you know The stories will be amazing. So yeah, looking forward to the first one.
Leila:Absolutely. And thank you so much again for inviting me. And it was an absolute pleasure to have this conversation with you. Yeah,
Caroline:well, likewise, likewise. So thank you so much, Leila. And we will speak again soon.
Leila:Bye for now. Bye. Have a very good day.
Caroline:So are you ready to give your team a day that's truly memorable? Why not book a call with me via the link in the show notes or simply visit raisingthebaa.com we would love to create the most extraordinary team in your field. Bye for now!